The Conversation: It’s That Time of Year Again

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The conversation

Every fall, in time for your Thanksgiving plans, we remind you that it’s time for The Conversation. No, not that conversation — we assume that the fact that you have grandchildren means you’ve already navigated that one. We’re talking about the end-of-life conversation.

Why this time of year?

Because your far-flung family is likely to be in town for some of the upcoming holidays. It gets dark earlier (not that the conversation needs to be dark). And there’s that big block of time after the game, before dinner and while the cook recalibrates how long it actually takes to cook a turkey.

Seriously (and this is serious) — you need to have the conversation with your family and involved friends. Don’t assume that they know what you would want. Assume that they are eager to know — but they don’t know how to broach the topic with you.

Maybe you’ve had a recent death in your family. Perhaps there have been opportunities to think (and talk) through your views on the end of life. But don’t assume “I would never want to live this way” is a sufficient explanation of your thinking.

I’ve had the conversation with the one person who needs to know

Great! You’re an outlier, and we applaud you. But you’re not done.

You need to have the conversation with all of your family. Not just the daughter you’ve named as health care agent, but also with the son who is adamantly opposed to removing life-sustaining treatment. And the other daughter who assumes that she will be the one to make the decisions.

Why? Because when it comes time to implement your instructions, you don’t want your health care agent to ever hear the phrase “I don’t believe mom would ever choose to die” or “if this is what dad really wanted, why did he never mention it to us?”

And here’s a harsh reality: if there is dissension in your family, that greatly increases the odds that you will be kept alive beyond the time you would have wanted. Plus you make your chosen agent’s job that much harder.

Can’t I just fill out all the right forms?

Great idea! Yes, you should do that. If you are an Arizonan, or spend a lot of time in Arizona, we think you need at least a health care power of attorney. In fact, it might turn out to be the single most important document you sign as part of your estate planning.

But it doesn’t end there. You also probably want to have completed a living will (it might be embedded in your health care power of attorney). In Arizona, you can also have signed a mental health care power of attorney. And there are innumerable tools to help you both sharpen your thinking about end of life, and to communicate that thinking to your agent (and family). We are fond, for instance, of the Five Wishes approach — it helps you by asking questions about specific scenarios and it encourages discussion.

But be thoughtful about signing the forms you see online (including the Five Wishes project’s form). They can undo the planning you thought out with our help, and they might create disputes about who is in charge. So we say work through the questions, but don’s sign the form — consult with a qualified attorney about how to integrate the issues into your estate planning. And please don’t just default to the Arizona statutory form — it skips too many of the important discussion points and gives your agent less authority than you probably want to give them.

When I bring it up my kids say they don’t want to talk about it

Who’s the parent here? You need to have the conversation. They need to engage with you.

It needn’t be a long conversation. Maybe start with explaining who is named as your health care agent and what documents you have signed. Consider sharing copies of the health care documents (and emailing or mailing to those family members not at dinner that day). Invite questions or conversation — but not really argument. Make it clear that this is serious, and you expect your wishes to be honored.

If you have particular things you feel strongly about (CPR, or dialysis, or blood transfusions, or whatever you particularly want or want to reject), explain that and maybe why. Those items are good to include in the documents, too — but it is even more important that your family know your wishes.

Thanks, I’ll do it. But I need more help

Good news! There’s a resource set up to help with this precise issue.

It’s called The Conversation Project, and (no surprise here) it has a robust website and some guidance and suggestions. Their Starter Guide is, well, a good conversation starter.

So schedule the conversation for this upcoming holiday season. And Happy Holidays. And pass the drumstick, please.

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Robert B. Fleming

Attorney

Robert Fleming is a Fellow of both the American College of Trust and Estate Counsel and the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys. He has been certified as a Specialist in Estate and Trust Law by the State Bar of Arizona‘s Board of Legal Specialization, and he is also a Certified Elder Law Attorney by the National Elder Law Foundation. Robert has a long history of involvement in local, state and national organizations. He is most proud of his instrumental involvement in the Special Needs Alliance, the premier national organization for lawyers dealing with special needs trusts and planning.

Robert has two adult children, two young grandchildren and a wife of over fifty years. He is devoted to all of them. He is also very fond of Rosalind Franklin (his office companion corgi), and his homebound cat Muninn. He just likes people, their pets and their stories.

Elizabeth N.R. Friman

Attorney

Elizabeth Noble Rollings Friman is a principal and licensed fiduciary at Fleming & Curti, PLC. Elizabeth enjoys estate planning and helping families navigate trust and probate administrations. She is passionate about the fiduciary work that she performs as a trustee, personal representative, guardian, and conservator. Elizabeth works with CPAs, financial professionals, case managers, and medical providers to tailor solutions to complex family challenges. Elizabeth is often called upon to serve as a neutral party so that families can avoid protracted legal conflict. Elizabeth relies on the expertise of her team at Fleming & Curti, and as the Firm approaches its third decade, she is proud of the culture of care and consideration that the Firm embodies. Finding workable solutions to sensitive and complex family challenges is something that Elizabeth and the Fleming & Curti team do well.

Amy F. Matheson

Attorney

Amy Farrell Matheson has worked as an attorney at Fleming & Curti since 2006. A member of the Southern Arizona Estate Planning Council, she is primarily responsible for estate planning and probate matters.

Amy graduated from Wellesley College with a double major in political science and English. She is an honors graduate of Suffolk University Law School and has been admitted to practice in Arizona, Massachusetts, New York, and the District of Columbia.

Prior to joining Fleming & Curti, Amy worked for American Public Television in Boston, and with the international trade group at White & Case, LLP, in Washington, D.C.

Amy’s husband, Tom, is an astronomer at NOIRLab and the Head of Time Domain Services, whose main project is ANTARES. Sadly, this does not involve actual time travel. Amy’s twin daughters are high school students; Finn, her Irish Red and White Setter, remains a puppy at heart.

Famous people's wills

Matthew M. Mansour

Attorney

Matthew is a law clerk who recently earned his law degree from the University of Arizona James E. Rogers College of Law. His undergraduate degree is in psychology from the University of California, Santa Barbara. Matthew has had a passion for advocacy in the Tucson community since his time as a law student representative in the Workers’ Rights Clinic. He also has worked in both the Pima County Attorney’s Office and the Pima County Public Defender’s Office. He enjoys playing basketball, caring for his cat, and listening to audiobooks narrated by the authors.